Tear-off Or 2nd Layer - Probably Short Term
mich_bill_00
Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:00 am
I'm currently getting quotes for a shingle roof in the Detroit area. I currently have 1 layer of 3-tab shingles, approximate age is 15 years (the house is 65 years old). I see Pride is a regular contributor -- he hasn't quoted it. Unfortunately I didn't ask anyone how many total squares. But the house is 1900 sq ft (colonial) with a breezeway and garage that I was told is an additional 8 squares. Current shingles are IKO metric and are curling or lifting on all south exposures.
The roof is walkable, mostly 4-12 with one small steeper gable. It is not a hip roof. I have no leaks anywhere. I have not had ice dams or icicles the 3 years I've lived here. I have no soffit vents and only 6 can vents on the entire roof. The house does stay pretty hot and humid in the summer though.
I'm planning an addition in the next 6-7 years when I've saved the money up. At that time, I'll be knocking down the breezeway and garage for a new 2-story addition (reverse gable into the current roof on the 2nd story).
My first though was to just get a second layer, then do a complete tear-off when the addition is built. Maybe even look into a metal roof or cement shingles at that time.
The one estimate is for 30 yr GAF Timberline re-cover with no soffit venting and 12 new roof vents along with aluminum flashing. Quoted just over $3000.
1. How can I determine if this roofer is legit?
2nd estimate was a big guy in the area. Refused to do a re-cover on the main house, but would do it on the breezeway and garage. He's quoting on Timberline 40AR with new ridge vents and 16 4x16 soffit vents including baffles since I've got blown insulation. Flashing, etc. Quote includes 4 nails per shingle. $6000 + wood decking.
2. If I back down to 30 yr without the algae resistance, what kind of price movement should I expect?
3rd guy is the biggest guy in town. Insists on a complete tear off. Quoted $6200 with no ventilation improvements and 30 yr shingles. Quoted $8000 for Thunder Guard lifetime shingles with new soffit vents cut in and 8 roof vents, then 30 yr fiberglass on breezeway and garage. Then I'm locked in to using him again when the additiona goes up.
3. Am I going wrong to go with the low bid, knowing that the longevity will not be as good?
4. I feel like a lifetime roof is overkill if I'm going to tear at least some of it up again in less than 10 years. Comments?
5. If the low guy installs the shingles properly, is there any reason not to expect 15 years of life, even without and soffit venting?
Any help would be appreciated.
The roof is walkable, mostly 4-12 with one small steeper gable. It is not a hip roof. I have no leaks anywhere. I have not had ice dams or icicles the 3 years I've lived here. I have no soffit vents and only 6 can vents on the entire roof. The house does stay pretty hot and humid in the summer though.
I'm planning an addition in the next 6-7 years when I've saved the money up. At that time, I'll be knocking down the breezeway and garage for a new 2-story addition (reverse gable into the current roof on the 2nd story).
My first though was to just get a second layer, then do a complete tear-off when the addition is built. Maybe even look into a metal roof or cement shingles at that time.
The one estimate is for 30 yr GAF Timberline re-cover with no soffit venting and 12 new roof vents along with aluminum flashing. Quoted just over $3000.
1. How can I determine if this roofer is legit?
2nd estimate was a big guy in the area. Refused to do a re-cover on the main house, but would do it on the breezeway and garage. He's quoting on Timberline 40AR with new ridge vents and 16 4x16 soffit vents including baffles since I've got blown insulation. Flashing, etc. Quote includes 4 nails per shingle. $6000 + wood decking.
2. If I back down to 30 yr without the algae resistance, what kind of price movement should I expect?
3rd guy is the biggest guy in town. Insists on a complete tear off. Quoted $6200 with no ventilation improvements and 30 yr shingles. Quoted $8000 for Thunder Guard lifetime shingles with new soffit vents cut in and 8 roof vents, then 30 yr fiberglass on breezeway and garage. Then I'm locked in to using him again when the additiona goes up.
3. Am I going wrong to go with the low bid, knowing that the longevity will not be as good?
4. I feel like a lifetime roof is overkill if I'm going to tear at least some of it up again in less than 10 years. Comments?
5. If the low guy installs the shingles properly, is there any reason not to expect 15 years of life, even without and soffit venting?
Any help would be appreciated.
QRFL
Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:42 am
stop worrying and hire pride roofing i am sure he will post soon, this guys knows his ventilation and his installation, if it was my house and i didnt knew how to roof i pay pride even 5k more then the competitor, he will put a roof on your home that will last as long as you live.
two things i can allready tell you if you want the best performance:
1) definetly tear it off
2) roof vents with not enough intake(soffit vents) dont work properly, get adecuate soffit vents.
why do you have to tear it off in 10 years?? any additional work performed on the roof could void your warranty once installed
two things i can allready tell you if you want the best performance:
1) definetly tear it off
2) roof vents with not enough intake(soffit vents) dont work properly, get adecuate soffit vents.
why do you have to tear it off in 10 years?? any additional work performed on the roof could void your warranty once installed
SYS
Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:05 am
Q is correct on everything he said. The soffit vents are definatly a must. A complete tear off is in the best intrest of you and your home, and your pocket book. I also agree with Q that if you call Pride you will get the proper venting to the t's he is very smart about that. If you don't have alot of trees around and no ponds, lakes, streams etc then the AR aren't going to make much of a difference. From my own personal experience I have only encountered Algae on roofs with trees over them or lakes/ponds within sight range. However there may be something I don't know about them. I can't believe IKO's lasted that long and find it even harder to believe they did it without vents. I'm shocked!
I wouldn't personally like the idea of being locked to any company for return work. That is a decision you should be able to make when it comes time to be made.
I think that you should get more feedback on this project. So you might want to stick around for a few days, weeks whatever it takes for you to resolve all the issues you have presented here. Make sure you are confident in the decision you make after all it is a most important one.
I wouldn't personally like the idea of being locked to any company for return work. That is a decision you should be able to make when it comes time to be made.
I think that you should get more feedback on this project. So you might want to stick around for a few days, weeks whatever it takes for you to resolve all the issues you have presented here. Make sure you are confident in the decision you make after all it is a most important one.
Pride_roofing
Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:33 am
Hello Bill, Well i see this day in and day out. Now sadly roofers out here for some reason have problems with following manufactures specs. Soffit ventilation is a must period. On a home like yours, i would be very leary of no upgrade to code of attic ventilation. Rule of thumb in michigan is for every 300 square feet of free attic space you need 1 square foot of ventilation. Now that is when it is balanced with soffit vents. Now without that must double (150 rule). With out that see yea to the shingle warranty. Run from IKO not very good products. Any reputiable roofer will not go over any shingles that are curling up due to telegraphing, secondly when you go ver the old shinlges they have a tendence to have a sort life span. I personally will never go over curling shingles. AR is pretty useless unless you have alot of trees or living by water. Have you thought of IR shingles reason i asked is state farm gives a insurance break that just started. Lower preimeums just somthing to think about. Now If this is an up and over roof. Gable roof. I would suggest blocking the gable vents if any, Balancing air ventilation by adding the proper amount of soffit vents eithe rusing ridge vent from shingle vent II or using GAF 960 exhaust vents. Now becareful what can vents are used, they all flow different max flow numbers and alot of companys fail to cut the hole the correct size and that could void you warranty. Also for example, lamanco 750 flows 45 inches per unit when hole is cut correctly, GAF 960 flows 55 inches and if your close on borderline of adding another vent you can void your warranty. Using 8 x 16 soffit vents work great as long as the soffit is wood and not aluminum, looks tacky and sticks out bad. Good old mr roofs thundergaurd shingle. THey are a huge company. I can not comment on there shingle but they only use it so with that its not proven in my eyes. I WOuld recommend using a 30 or 40 year Certainteed shingle. A landmark is a fine shingle. Hey they back the warranty for 10 years if there is zero ventilation where no one will. So with that i feel very confident using a shingle from a company that backs there shingles so well. Now flashing question, well in my eyes i never reuse flashing. Been there forever so i rather spend the few extra minutes reflashing the home and making sure that it is water tight. Ice and water shield Must be 24 inches inside the exterior wall or code is not met. Now that is heated area's , I use a standard on my roofs since you have a colonial the porch may or may not touch a heated area. I use 6 feet of ice and water on all eaves, more where needed for those porches.
It for some reason bothers me when so many companys have the resources to do the job right, but they send a salesman out to do the job and not a roofer. THats where the code and the main mistakes are made. I have been shingling and still do for over 13 years. ALtho i watchover day to day stuff and do estimates. I hope i can shed some light on your home. Emails me i can send a plethora of info pertaining to state codes and ventilation specs. Hey not saying what others do is my business, I just like to follow the law and make sure when a customer spends his hard earned money i want to make sure that it is well spent for where or she really needs not just well heres my price. Asuming oakland county depending on what city i would definatly make sure a permit is needed and pulled if applicable. If not you retain full resposiblity if there is a code violation when you go to sell the home, and thats at your cost. I see everyday ridge vent without soffit vents and that voids the warranty. FOr some it is a paycheck for others like me i take pride and have a pasion for doing it right the first time. Hope I could help. If you need anything or just want some insite you can give me a call on my cell at 586-489-7668. Or the office but im rarely there. Click the link i have to see some of my work. Have a great day and Good luck with your project.
It for some reason bothers me when so many companys have the resources to do the job right, but they send a salesman out to do the job and not a roofer. THats where the code and the main mistakes are made. I have been shingling and still do for over 13 years. ALtho i watchover day to day stuff and do estimates. I hope i can shed some light on your home. Emails me i can send a plethora of info pertaining to state codes and ventilation specs. Hey not saying what others do is my business, I just like to follow the law and make sure when a customer spends his hard earned money i want to make sure that it is well spent for where or she really needs not just well heres my price. Asuming oakland county depending on what city i would definatly make sure a permit is needed and pulled if applicable. If not you retain full resposiblity if there is a code violation when you go to sell the home, and thats at your cost. I see everyday ridge vent without soffit vents and that voids the warranty. FOr some it is a paycheck for others like me i take pride and have a pasion for doing it right the first time. Hope I could help. If you need anything or just want some insite you can give me a call on my cell at 586-489-7668. Or the office but im rarely there. Click the link i have to see some of my work. Have a great day and Good luck with your project.
mich_bill_00
Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:24 pm
Thanks for the info so far. I'm not near any water, but I do have a lot of large trees around. I only get algae in one area though, and I plan to cut down the overhanging tree this year. So I'll probably skip the AR shinges and go with a regular 30 yr architectural.
Let me put my main question another way. The main part of my house is a gable roof with sides facing east and west. When I add an addition in a few years, I will have to break out the east side to change my roofline to handle the addition. The new addition will have north/south facing sides and will be narrower than the existing roof. What will I need to do then? Get another tear-off or can the new section of shingles and new valley be easily joined to the existing roof? Will that void the warranty on a roof I put on this year?
This is why longevity feels like less of an issue to me -- I'm going to make changes within the next decade regardless of how long the job I do this year lasts.
Let me put my main question another way. The main part of my house is a gable roof with sides facing east and west. When I add an addition in a few years, I will have to break out the east side to change my roofline to handle the addition. The new addition will have north/south facing sides and will be narrower than the existing roof. What will I need to do then? Get another tear-off or can the new section of shingles and new valley be easily joined to the existing roof? Will that void the warranty on a roof I put on this year?
This is why longevity feels like less of an issue to me -- I'm going to make changes within the next decade regardless of how long the job I do this year lasts.
Pride_roofing
Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:49 pm
Well bill if there is going to be major change to the roof i would wait. If it is leaking maybe a repair is in order. It is really hard to say without looking at the home. If no leaks and just looks curled i would wait unless worried. You would lose you labor warranty from whom ever does the roof. Not the manufacutrers. Butting shingles you will notice with an additon and you will not be happy, if the shingles are even from the same lot number they wont match up. Best advise wait. If someone is telling you other wise they are just trying to sell something. IF it is leaking well then its a toss. Either way its a catch 22. Hope i answered the question. Need any more help or if i missed something drop me a line or post here again. Just glad i can help. Gooing with the low bid you will get what you pay for sadly. If your home's free attic area is 1900 square not living but attic area 16, 4x16 vents will work. One thing that bothers me is the no ventilation upgrade. THat automatically voids the warranty. Due to lack of current vents and no soffit vents.
