How Much?
southsidejohnny
Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:06 am
I live in california I usally charge about 130 dollars a sq. to install comp. shingles. Is this too high or to low?
Master
Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:34 am
Are you getting them easily?
Pride_roofing
Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:51 am
well trunk slammin might be you way but 130 a square anywhere is well why dont you just cut the lawn while ur at it and trim the bushes. BTW learn to bid
Master
Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 am
Is that install only, or is material figured into that?
Pride_roofing
Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:01 am
I guess without materials or he has no insurance or a licence. Either way there is something wrong sound like just a paycheck to me.
QRFL
Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:04 am
only labor and materials should be $185-$400 this are ideal conditions no tear-off standard shingles.
you know johnny i started low bailing and hurting to make ends meet, i learned you can charge more without beign afraid loosing the job, as long as you are properly legal, and have something to ofter.
if you are legit .... lets analize it....?
$130 a square
- $45 shingles = 90 dollars to do a quality roof
- $10 felt= 80 dollars to do a quality roof
- $15 flashings,drip edge starter etc. = 65 dollars to do a quality roof
- $5 load,tax,gas,etc.= 60 dollars to do a quality roof
- $37 paying your shingler plus labor burden = 23 dollars to do a quality roof
- $3 dollars to pay dump and clean up labor = 20 dollars to do a quality roof
remember this is by the square rates, so if you sold a 20 square roof....
you just made a $400 proffit
now pay your lic fees , general liability, advertising, and all the overhead,
say your overhead is 10% = $40 you are down to $360
now remove 30% fro uncle sam you got : $240
hey what do you know??? your shingler made more money than you did!!
you know johnny i started low bailing and hurting to make ends meet, i learned you can charge more without beign afraid loosing the job, as long as you are properly legal, and have something to ofter.
if you are legit .... lets analize it....?
$130 a square
- $45 shingles = 90 dollars to do a quality roof
- $10 felt= 80 dollars to do a quality roof
- $15 flashings,drip edge starter etc. = 65 dollars to do a quality roof
- $5 load,tax,gas,etc.= 60 dollars to do a quality roof
- $37 paying your shingler plus labor burden = 23 dollars to do a quality roof
- $3 dollars to pay dump and clean up labor = 20 dollars to do a quality roof
remember this is by the square rates, so if you sold a 20 square roof....
you just made a $400 proffit
now pay your lic fees , general liability, advertising, and all the overhead,
say your overhead is 10% = $40 you are down to $360
now remove 30% fro uncle sam you got : $240
hey what do you know??? your shingler made more money than you did!!
Master
Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:13 am
Lets not make assumptions, guys, If it were for labor only on a walker, wouldnt you do them for 135 if the materials were supplied by others?
QRFL
Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:15 am
yea of course if he is only providing labor, i figure that out based on what he would charge as a company, i always loose money o labors only , you dont only loose money by not getting the markup of the materials.
but homeowners like to buy the materials and always be short and keep you waiting.
there is nothing better than to you take charge do good work and charge good.
i know guys here that would charge $40 cash on walkable a square and do nice work, but is all illegal.
I am almost sure he is talking labor and materials.
Since i have heard same story somewhere else here in CA.
Master i dont see how could you say labor only, man a company charges about $60 a square to install with labor burden and markup, i f its cash its insane.
a company 20 square 20 yr recover about =$ 3,700
if he gets sub for labor $135 plus materials about$75 thats $210 a square
thats about $4200
why would a homeowner go to the trouble of buying , measuring, and be bringing material, to end up spending $500 more than if he hires a legit company?
but homeowners like to buy the materials and always be short and keep you waiting.
there is nothing better than to you take charge do good work and charge good.
i know guys here that would charge $40 cash on walkable a square and do nice work, but is all illegal.
I am almost sure he is talking labor and materials.
Since i have heard same story somewhere else here in CA.
Master i dont see how could you say labor only, man a company charges about $60 a square to install with labor burden and markup, i f its cash its insane.
a company 20 square 20 yr recover about =$ 3,700
if he gets sub for labor $135 plus materials about$75 thats $210 a square
thats about $4200
why would a homeowner go to the trouble of buying , measuring, and be bringing material, to end up spending $500 more than if he hires a legit company?
G-Tape
Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:12 am
My turn....
You all are assuming things here. So let me assume...
$130 per sq.X 20 sq=$2600.00
Now this is a layover and he is working by himself, and only works by himself.
1 sq 3-1 shingles cost $40.00
20 sq shingles X $40.00=$800.00
1 box nails = $30.00
Total $830.00
$2600.00
- $830.00
_____________
$1770.00
One guy can easily get 20 sq done in a day....easily!
He can lay this in a day, cleanup and hit another 2 estimates on the way home. or he can do his estimates on Saturdays and set up the next jobs after he is done roofing.
so $1770.00 for one days work X 5 days a week =$8850.00 per week
out of that, he has to pay his overhead which is his truck and maybe some small advertising and Liability Ins. He doesn't need WC because he works alone and he is the owner.
So his overhead might be somewheres around $300 per week
$8850.00
- $300.00
________
$8550.00
How many of us are bringing home $8550.00 per week?
I'd say thats pretty good if you ask me.
You all are assuming things here. So let me assume...
$130 per sq.X 20 sq=$2600.00
Now this is a layover and he is working by himself, and only works by himself.
1 sq 3-1 shingles cost $40.00
20 sq shingles X $40.00=$800.00
1 box nails = $30.00
Total $830.00
$2600.00
- $830.00
_____________
$1770.00
One guy can easily get 20 sq done in a day....easily!
He can lay this in a day, cleanup and hit another 2 estimates on the way home. or he can do his estimates on Saturdays and set up the next jobs after he is done roofing.
so $1770.00 for one days work X 5 days a week =$8850.00 per week
out of that, he has to pay his overhead which is his truck and maybe some small advertising and Liability Ins. He doesn't need WC because he works alone and he is the owner.
So his overhead might be somewheres around $300 per week
$8850.00
- $300.00
________
$8550.00
How many of us are bringing home $8550.00 per week?
I'd say thats pretty good if you ask me.
QRFL
Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:27 pm
100 squares a week!!! nice
roof 5 houses for 13,000
no wonder we are hurting from low bidders
i know he has a helper.. so wait till the helper gets hurt and see what happens
the cost of materials, what no felt , metal , etc.????
i agree with you guys on your good roofing practices, but not on this one.
he might make money , but is too cheap
roof 5 houses for 13,000
no wonder we are hurting from low bidders
i know he has a helper.. so wait till the helper gets hurt and see what happens
the cost of materials, what no felt , metal , etc.????
i agree with you guys on your good roofing practices, but not on this one.
he might make money , but is too cheap
Master
Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:27 pm
Not if hes labor only @ 130.00
QRFL
Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:54 pm
Master hes talking mat+labor here
i talked to him
ITS CHEAP!!!!!!!!!
lol
i talked to him
ITS CHEAP!!!!!!!!!
lol
G-Tape
Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:55 pm
QRFL, I agree with you, as a company it is cheap. And with a helper, yes he NEEDS to have WC.
Now if he is making good money at $130 a sq. what is wrong with that? Maybe he feels like he is raping the customer at $150, $200, or whatever the higher price is.
Yes I get underbid all the time, and I have forever. But there was a time when I was underbidding the competition. Then there was a time when, as I grew, my overhead made me charge more, and now, my overhead is more than most of the people that I used to underbid. Now, do I have the right to tell them that they are lowballing? That they need to raise their prices because they are underbidding me? That is Capitalism. That is the American way.
Right now I can't get a roof to save my life............at my price. In a month from now, all the cheaper guys will be booked up and I will move in and get my price and I will be busy. It has been this way since the beginning of time and it will always be this way. That is the price of doing business. You need to adjust and be able to work through the tough times, be it another service you can offer, a niche in the market, downsize for part of the year, or whatever. There will always be lowballers, we were all one at one time or another. The ones that made it, like I said, eventually had to raise their prices to stay in business. There is no way to get everybody organized and charge the same price, there will always be that guy that comes in below the radar and gets the job. We just have to learn how to deal with these guys.
Not pointing at you QRFL, but we shouldn't bust a guys balls because he is cheaper than the next guy. Now we can bust his balls for not having proper insurance or license, or cheating the customer. But not for lowballing. I know a guy that is always the low bidder, but he is swamped all the time. They are a huge company, probably bigger that all of us here combined. But he makes his money on quantity. They put on good roofs, quality roof, good workers, all insurances, etc. But he is always the low bidder.
OK, I'm done.
Now if he is making good money at $130 a sq. what is wrong with that? Maybe he feels like he is raping the customer at $150, $200, or whatever the higher price is.
Yes I get underbid all the time, and I have forever. But there was a time when I was underbidding the competition. Then there was a time when, as I grew, my overhead made me charge more, and now, my overhead is more than most of the people that I used to underbid. Now, do I have the right to tell them that they are lowballing? That they need to raise their prices because they are underbidding me? That is Capitalism. That is the American way.
Right now I can't get a roof to save my life............at my price. In a month from now, all the cheaper guys will be booked up and I will move in and get my price and I will be busy. It has been this way since the beginning of time and it will always be this way. That is the price of doing business. You need to adjust and be able to work through the tough times, be it another service you can offer, a niche in the market, downsize for part of the year, or whatever. There will always be lowballers, we were all one at one time or another. The ones that made it, like I said, eventually had to raise their prices to stay in business. There is no way to get everybody organized and charge the same price, there will always be that guy that comes in below the radar and gets the job. We just have to learn how to deal with these guys.
Not pointing at you QRFL, but we shouldn't bust a guys balls because he is cheaper than the next guy. Now we can bust his balls for not having proper insurance or license, or cheating the customer. But not for lowballing. I know a guy that is always the low bidder, but he is swamped all the time. They are a huge company, probably bigger that all of us here combined. But he makes his money on quantity. They put on good roofs, quality roof, good workers, all insurances, etc. But he is always the low bidder.
OK, I'm done.
QRFL
Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:07 pm
lol
take a breath man!!!
the original question was :
"is 130 a square comp and labor too high or to low"
well.....
IT'S TOO LOW!!!!
take a breath man!!!
the original question was :
"is 130 a square comp and labor too high or to low"
well.....
IT'S TOO LOW!!!!
G-Tape
Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:12 pm
Yeah, I guess you're right.
