rooferrob

Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:25 pm

I work for a small company on the out-skirts of central ohio. We are currently in our 8th year of business. My father ownes the company and has been in the industry for over 35 years. the first 7 years of our business have been pretty good, getting better and better every year. But starting in December of 04, the business seems to be on the decline. Now I kind of feel responsible because I have been in charge of the sales since may of 04. The few estimates that come in, I bid at a fairly good price for what we have. (the shop, 4 trucks w/ logos, 8 crew members, materials, building utilities, insurance & BWC, ect.) I've been bidding tearoffs at around 180-200 per sq. and layovers at around 120-125 per sq. Now for what we have thats barley a profit but just enough to get by after material, labor, and bills. I drive by some of these houses that i've bid on and i see like 15 mexicans doing these jobs. How are they getting all the jobs? I've bid alot of our jobs very dangerosly low and still don't get the job. I myself have been in the industry for about 13 years now and i feel my sales knowledge is up to par. We have a solid crew of 8 guys that are very well trained in all areas of installing and take damn good pride in their work. they like nothing more than to hear the homeowner tell them that they've done a good job. It just seems anymore that you can't go to a jobsite anywhere without seeing a crew of mexicans. Isn't this America? What is going on? Whats it going to be like in 20 years when the mexicans have done everything? Its like mexico is building America while the Americans are scraping by. I'm not a racisist in any way at all but I think this is getting a little out of hand. These guys are pulling up to jobsites 15 deep in a van, building these houses from the foundation up, and even sleeping in them overnight in some cases. alot of people are telling us to fight fire with fire and hire mexicans ourselves. So I should let go of the crew that has been loyal the past 8 years for a bunch of guys who are illegal, uninsured, and can't even speak the language. Something has got to give soon. Is this going on everywhere in america? I'd love to hear some responses or suggestions to my posting. feel free

Mupton

Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:54 pm

Rob, it's the same way here in mo. There has been a steady decline in business. In 2002 we did a little over 1 million in sales. I had 13 employees working 60-70 hours a week. In 2004 sales were down to 600,000.00 and I had to let 5 guys go. This year it's even worse. You can blame it on the influx of illegal emmigrants and the business owners willing to sell out their fellow americans, by hiring them. I have personally written my congressman urging them for tighter enforcement of the borders. Until the democrats get back in control of the goverment we all will have to suffer. It's not just me neither, a number of other local guys are giving me the same story!

Master

Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:50 pm

Try this site...

http://www.reportillegals.com/

I do not know what else to do about it, but it is way out of control. We are having the same problems here in the outskirts of Chicago, but much worse i nthe city, whereas you do not even need a permit for roofing in the city of Chicago.

QRFL

Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:17 pm

i agree i live next to the border about 30 miles and like i posted in the topic http://www.roofing.com/about2148.html , i am mexican and i see it a lot it is true some guys come across the border and take away my bids for half the price and i get screwed, as long as there are cheap americans trying to hire illegal mexicans they are going to be here thats the true,and it sucks,it dosent only hurt americans but legal guys like me who want to run a business, i reply a lot of this with pride-roofing and there is no near solution,only frustration,the disadvantage is :

we live here and gotta follow the law while this guys gamble and if something goes wrong they just pack up and go back home

FlemingConstruction9900

Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:19 pm

If they are not full blooded Americans they dont work

QRFL

Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:51 pm

im not full blooded american, but you can still kiss my butt.
and some americans work great and some dont work either.

Pride_roofing

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:53 pm

Either way you look at it this industry has seen the professionals and now are seeing the amatuers. So let John Q. Public buy cheap and when it leaks and it will, look at it as job security. I tell customers flat out now ok they can do the roof for 1500 less well sounds like a good price too bad something has to be left out at that price. Responce"what do you mean?" Well with that price it is easy to see from my side that he is not paying for something. May it be insurance, quality workers, or his own bills i can not speak for this other company but with the current price i have worked up for you ill go over it with you so you know how your hard earned dollar is spent. 1. Materials about 65 with dims. 2. Labor now with this i run with 75 a square walkable 2layer. Well im at 140 a square and i have not made a profit to afford advertising, gas, phones etc. Now would it be safe to say that i should make something off of this? So i can pay my bills so lets say 20% for office and advertising costs. So now we are at 168 a square. Now i need to feed my family so i do get a commission on every job. so lets say 10% so that makes it 184.80 a square. Now with know this Mr and Mrs Public even if I pulled my commission out of this job I still can not touch his price. Now in my price i pay for insurance and that is quite expensive, for every 100 dollars in labor i payout i spent 44 on top of that 100 for my workmans comp. Now 18 dollars on my liablity. So with that i spend for every 100 dollars in labor i spend like everyone that is leagl mind you, 162 dollars on 100 for my labor. Now can we see how it is important to see what you are spending your money on.

Lets say the job is quoted by you at 190 a square, and hes at 160 with the same materials, and it is 25 square. you bid 4750 and he bid 4000. If you break it down and can TRUELY SELL this should over come i would say 40 to 50 % of these idiots. Mind you i bid on some with guys in my price range and higher also. Best advise you should be incontrol of the convo. Lastly when you say so mr and mrs public now that i have explained everything and how it works and what the true differences are in the compnays would it be safe to say since you are now educated consumers that buying from someone that either is not paying his employees properly with the industry standards. or he is not paying for something. Let me ask you so i can understand, You wouldnt buy from someone who is not paying for something or pays his employees poorly would you? Now that works 7 out of 10 fro me. Because who know what a disgruntaled person might do. Then go right back to closing. Unless you are a salesman you will be lost. It took me years to get to the point of putting the balls on my shoulders and not care what I say or what they say but make sure we are all aggreeing. I have some items i have given out from a window supplier that is fantastic for closing. Drop me a line maybe it will help. PS Cheap people will never buy from us due to the makeup of them. So dont worry about them call them bout a month later when the cheapest guy in town did there roof and ask them to do a little market research for yea and it wil only take a minute.

gsstage1

Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:23 pm

HEY rooferrob thats the same thing here in southern WISCONSIN they are all over the place. i to am not racisist but it really stinks. as far as your biding goes don,t go down to those low ball prices you do good work people will buy the problem isn't the mexican's it's the roofing contractor that is hiring the mexicans as "SUB-CONTRACTOR'S don't get discouraged stick to what you know is right stay with it .let me tell you alittle story 2years ago i subed a job to a mexican crew that a friend of mine uses a lot, to make a long story short it was the first time in 4 years that i had a problem with a customer. you see they did a 30 sq 1 layer 7 pitch 120 ft of valley 80 ft of ridge vent to cut in replace 6 roof vents with plywood in a day!! the homeowner was well mad the job was $7500 and it got done in a day it seemed to the homeower that i was greedy making $7500 a day i've never done tha since. hang in there and KEEP your guys good luck

G-Tape

Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:34 pm

Same here in West Michigan. I don't blame the mexicans though, I blame the business owners for hiring these people and for ripping these people off. I blame the customers for buying cheap, I blame the other roofing companies for not sticking together and getting rid of these guys.

This is Capitalism, you need to find your niche' and sell it !!!

You have been in business for 8 years now, you should be getting alot of referrals and previous customers calling you for more work. Send them a little note saying your still around if they need anything. Send out a coupon for a cheap roof inspection. Put in advertising how legal you are and how honest you run your business. Explain how most of these guys are illegal.

Maybe you can diversify into some other field close to roofing? cleaning roofs? cleaning gutters? roof service work? even windows and doors? That is the only thing that has kept us going through these tough times.

QRFL

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:57 am

thank you G-Tape, i been trying to make that point all along, you are right is not one-sided party, there are illegals and theres the contractors,homeowners,etc. that hire them. same as drugs, people say dont want them in the street ,but they go buy them , the thing is g-tape that some guys try to stick togheter and do it legal , but there will always be the crooked ones who be making the quick jobs and taking guys from home depot, cousins, uncles, grampas up on the roof without insurance, and trust me if i had the capital to diversify i would do like gutters and stuff, there are a lot of people who hire a guy only because he gives them a bid for stucco and roof togheter all they want is to feal with only one person.
maybe do : roofing and painting
roofing and gutters
roofing and windows
roofing and solar tubes

dont do:
roofing and complaining

brokenladder

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:25 am

This is what you have to do. EVERY time you see a crew of them working call the Imagration office and tell them Where, how many and what thay are doing. Chances are Half of them do not have a green card.We had a company up here in n.y. with three of them we reported it and the next day thay were busted on the job. NO papers the owner got in trouble for hiring illeagle immagrants plus a bunch of other charges.It's one of the only ways that i know that will work. Thay are takeing are work away,You have to stay on top of it , because if you don't you me and every other person in this trade will be out of Business!!! I know this the American dollar is worth 11 dollars in mexico,so if thay are getting 6.00 p/h @8hrs p/day thats48 dollars U.S 528.00 paso.. thats why ther here.A 100.000 house here cost them 10.000 in mexico for the same exact thing NO $#@! .Just keepcalling the border patrol and the inspestors.or OSHA do anything you can to disrupt ther work day and thay won't come back. Good luck keep me informed

QRFL

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:47 am

i disagree, they will keep jumping the fence, some die daily crossing the dessert, so getting deported will only mean more work for the new illegal, on the other hand if anyone who hires them would get penalized or fined a good chunk, then they would think twice before doing it again and hire a license and insured contractor.

maybe you guys should return the favor and go work illegaly in mexico
start the "mexican contractor association" and then start complaining too about the southamericans from honduras and salvador taking work away in mexico too.

ENOUGH WITH THIS!!!!!!!!!